The Flog - Latest Comments in Packs O’ Men

Re: Packs O’ Men

Who Let That Moose In? — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:13:22 -0000

Long time reader, first time commenter. I love "The Guild" as I've been playing MMORPGs since EverQuest 1 and our server's ridiculous drama is still archived even years after everyone quit.

Anyway. This entry was particularly amusing to me because, even though I am a total nerd and will usually read any fantasy/modern supernatural/sci-fi/whatever that sounds vaguely interesting, I've always scoffed at the erotic subgenre as mere fap material barely a step above NC-17 fanfiction.

But then someone bought this e-book Master for me and I've had something of a turn around. Apparently all it took was intelligent, snarky dialogue between an blasé, annoyed rock star trying to hide his vampiric nature and the snobby, preening, closeted TV star he accidentally turns into a vampire. I didn't know that homoerotic sexual tension was hot either, and the fact that it's mostly about two guys means there is no cast-off female lead who ends up taking the backseat after she gets her man.

Since it's an e-book and apparently in a PDF format that doesn't mesh with your Kindle, I don't suppose you'll ever get around to it but since, given it is classified as erotic urban fantasy and thus it surprised me by being clever and entertaining, I thought I'd at least mention it.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Merlin Ma — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:16:27 -0000

Hello! I'm your fan from Taiwan! I just saw your web show "The Guild" and "Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog", and it's all fabulous! I especially like the song in both show, such as the theme for "The Guild" and "On The Rise" in "Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog". Thank you for bring us such wonderful shows!

And I love Fantasy, too! In fact, I'm studying graduate school right now, and my thesis is about Taiwan's Fantasy Literature and Science Fiction! It's a little bit difficult to me, because I used to be a reader, not a researcher. Most of the novels you introduce isn't publish in Taiwan. How sad!

Sorry, my English isn't well, and that's all I can translate for what I want to say. It's very nice to meet you! Your show influence me a lot!

Re: Packs O’ Men

Ena — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:48:28 -0000

Now I know what you mean by vaginal-fantasy among your bookshelves. And why it took me to read this post to figure it out. It's because this genre bores me to death, I simply cannot stand it till finishing the book. Twilight saga took all my patience to finish.

I'd rather Robin Hobb stabs me with her too-real-to-be-fantasy-harsh plots than ...well... what you summed up above. Though, I have no problem people who love this stuff. But even when I seek something light-hearted to read, I will prefer something else other than these. But again, I've always had a low tolerance for romance genre in general.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Joel — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:31:36 -0000

And Felicia,
It's because of these romance books that I was able to laugh so much when I worked at Barnes and Noble. I worked in shipping and receiving, I got to open all of the boxes of books before they hit the floor, so that meant that I typically would get the romance dumps - which means there were some days like Mondays when ALL of the romance novels would arrive. So, my boss and I would have a contest every day to see who could receive the funniest and most absurd book title, and most laughable cover art as well. You do have to admit, they can get a bit silly.

In addition to that, we also tried to guess trends in the books, as there was an Irish phase, then a Scottish highlander phase, and then a Mediterranean phase and so on. We've also seen the addition of vampires and pirates to the lineup, but we always joked about why they won't add zombies.

-Joel

Re: Packs O’ Men

Camillionaire — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:08:34 -0000

Oh, yuck. I really need to work on my subject-verb agreement.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Camillionaire — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:04:21 -0000

Have you read anything from Mercedes Lackey's series of Valdemar? Romance doesn't really play a mega-huge role in her books, but she definitely sets up most of her characters in a romantic subplot, and it's not incredibly graphic or anything, it's just cute stuff that makes you go awww. The relationships in her stories basically play out like a romantic comedy in a fantasy world. Her stories and basically the entire world she's created within her books is amazing. I wasn't really into the fantasy genre until my friend made me read a few books. I'm utterly obsessed.

But hey, they're not really romance novels. I just thought I'd recommend some readin'.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Phalangite — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:49:20 -0000

What's this business with alpha men sometimes being called 'mysterious', anyway? I mean, they ooze their alpha all over the place, and that's about it. Seriously, I can't see the mystery. But some people do. Or something. (Someone recently called me mysterious, and last time I checked, I have neither excess alpha nor any enigma). My only mystery is why these guys are seen as mysterious.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Nyla — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:47:22 -0000

I just finished reading the Lora Leigh "The Breeds Series" and if you want Hot Sex scenes and interesting plot you should check out this series. Its more fantasy/paranormal/romance.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Julie — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:40:17 -0000

"100% pure medical-grade Scottish crack" You summed it up well! ^.^ Its seriously a good read though, even without the sex scenes.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Julie — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:20:55 -0000

I got bored with Sookie too... but maybe I should keep reading. >.>

Re: Packs O’ Men

Julie — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:16:05 -0000

At least you have a blank Kindle cover to hide them behind! >.<

I've read some of those too, its a sickness I tell you! But... men have porn and women have romance novels. And with that comparison, most guys don't actually /want/ the women in those things, as most women (I hope) don't really want the men in those books.

My problem with romance novels is that the man is indefinitely flawed and the woman indefinitely "fixes" him.
Reality: People are flawed and they usually stay that way.

Fab observations, thanks for sharing! ^.^

Re: Packs O’ Men

Alicat — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:25:08 -0000

I'm totally on board with the Sookie Stackhouse books. She's a bit of a Mary Sue as heroines go, but it's totally worth it.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Miss Cassie — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:18:09 -0000

Several things:

One: I heart the BDB and DH series' THIS MUCH!!!

Two: Big fan of you.

Three: I love how you actually respond to your readers. How very considerate.

/impressed
//bigger fan now
///slashies!!!

Re: Packs O’ Men

erin — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:59:37 -0000

Rosemary is right. Read the Sookie Stackhouse novels. The scenes with the faeries make me pee myself. Given that there are 7 novels currently (with the 8th soon to be released, eep!) I would have had to buy myself a new couch (if I were being literal).

Try also the Aisling Grey, Guardian series by Katie MacAlister. Aisling takes a while to get to the aha! moments sometimes but it rules my world that she won't give up her dream of being a guardian to a portal to hell just because some sexy dragon claims her as his mate. I'm only halfway through the series (I started yesterday, just give me to tomorrow night, I'll be done) and it appears she gets married at the end so I hope it doesn't just all crumble into disappointment. Here's hoping.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Lynn — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 12:45:10 -0000

I also find the lack of power in the female heroine after copulation very disturbing. There are some books where I can ignore it, but I have been known to discard a book for overtly caveman attitudes.

Thanks for the commentary - I loved it! :)

I also have a book suggestion: The Chronicles of Elantra Series
It doesn't have any smutty scenes (so far) but I still found it enjoyable.
The same problem exists with the heroine getting less aggressive and more submissive in the latter books but not so much that I couldn't enjoy the rest of the book.

The first book in the series is "Cast in Shadow" by Michelle Sagara.

Re: Packs O’ Men

spannerotoole — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 12:36:48 -0000

Packs Of Men series....

Sounds like you're into gay porn :) (Couldn't Resist it. Sorry :-) )

Re: Packs O’ Men

Matthew — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:44:47 -0000

I've never been particularly drawn to this sub genre but had a girlfriend who loved reading these books so I've read a few back covers. They've always stricken me as having recycled the plots from the worst episodes of Highlander: the Series.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Steph — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:27:27 -0000

>> What’s the appeal of the Alpha man in romance novels?

Personally, for me, it's sort of a trainwreck quality enjoyment. It's like watching a Lifetime Channel original movie, in which you are constantly reinforced the notion that the woman is always the VICTIM and the cause of and solution to all of her woes is a big, strong man! It's so bad ... it's pretty amusing.

I think that's why I opt for the historical romance smut. The vast majority seems to have been written between the mid-80s and early-90s, consistantly featuring beautiful (always seems to be over-emphasized), "strong-willed" women who are for some reason perfect in every way and loved by everyone, even the characters who start out hating them.

The males must be very alpha and mysterious and despite the fact that their previous history is spent "taking" women in a very caddish nature, this time is different because she is THE ONE. Oh yes, because even though he steals you away on his pirate ship, or some sort of clan raid ... he just wants to argue with you and talk about his feelings! ... and THEN the graphic sexings! \o/

I really wish there was real character development to women in these novels besides generic spunk that's supposed to make the heroine seem capable, but makes for a poorly developed, unintersting character. Or that the only archetype available for the male lead is more than "douchebag with a heart of gold!"

But ... as the blog post detailing Mr. Miller's metaphoric writting has shown, bad fiction can be pretty funny to read!

Oh yes, and I found this link through Penny Arcade too! I've seen Dr. Horrible before, but I had no idea about "The Guild" before I came here!

Re: Packs O’ Men

Ohako — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 06:56:44 -0000

a) not a lady...sorry
b) stumbled on here from Penny Arcade - blame them, or just claim your free tickets to their con, whatever
c) used to work in a sci-fi/fantasy bookstore

My favorite work in this genre is Sunshine by Robin McKinley. Oh heck, you may also like Tinker and the sequel Wolf Who Rules by Wen Spencer.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Felicia Day — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:46:31 -0000

Cathy,
thanks so much for that suggestion! I actually read 1 and was meh about it, but I will download #4 for my Kindle for the plane tomorrow!

And I TOTALLY love that blog, I need to get the book, those ladies crack me up a lot. I read all of her dragon books as a college girl, but I hear she has a new series coming out this summer, more urban fantasy? I remember pre-ordering something by her recently.

Re: Packs O’ Men

Cathy — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:36:17 -0000

Just stumbled across your blog, via Penny Arcade. I'm a fan of yours from Dr. Horrible, too.

Anyway, just wanted to echo the suggestions for Kresley Cole's Immortals After Dark series. Book 1 was okay, books 2 and 3 better, but the series really takes off with #4. I'd actually recommend skipping ahead and starting with 4 (can't remember the title, but it's Conrad and Neomi's story). The books are standalone enough that you won't miss out on much.

Also, Patricia Brigg's Alpha and Omega was a great paranormal.

Finally, wanted to draw your attention to "Beyond Heaving Bosoms, the Smart Bitches' Guide to Romance Novels." It just came out last week, and is a look at the romance genre by the writers of the Smart Bitches, Trashy Books blog. Insightful and incredibly funny. All those romance tropes you love to secretly love are mentioned in all their cliched glory.

Glad to run across someone who has also been corrupted by the anonymous nature of reading on the Kindle. (By the way, for great 800-page castle-covered fantasy epics, Melanie Rawn is incredible.)

Re: Packs O’ Men

Sharma S. — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:41:44 -0000

Hullo Felicia! :)

Howdy do! :) Very insightful this pondering of yours indeed was. :)

I think for me urban fantasy equates to Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series. It takes place in modern-day Chicago, but with a few extra beings, if you know wat I mean. ;) You've got all sorts of women in there though, who are in BOTH leadership and non-leadership positions. Karrin Murphy is a strong police detective character, but she's not stereotypical. Not really. Then, there's a regular-reporter-girl-turned-vamp-girl in the person of Susan Rodriguez, who literally kicks butt AND saves it too. And ususally, it's Harry's (aka the eponymous hero's) butt that she's saving. (And he's a WIZARD too, so you'd think he wouldn't need saving, yah?) ;)

And then there's the Archive. A little girl who knows everything there is to know about everything. LITERALLY. It's all in her head. Then there's Queen Mab, the ruler of Winter in the Faerie Courts...

And those are just a few of the examples. :)

You should really check this series out if you can! :)

Here's the complete and chronological list of them:

1 Storm Front 2000 April
2 Fool Moon 2001 January
3 Grave Peril 2001 September
4 Summer Knight 2002 September
5 Death Masks 2003 August
6 Blood Rites 2004 August
7 Dead Beat 2005 May
8 Proven Guilty 2006 May
9 White Night 2007 April
10 Small Favor 2008 April
11 Turn Coat 2009 April
12 Changes 2010 April

~Sharma,
who's just lookin' out. :)

Re: Packs O’ Men

Josh — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:21:15 -0000

eek! I accidentally double posted trying to correct a wording error. My bad!

Re: Packs O’ Men

Josh — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:19:22 -0000

Even (especially?) as a guy, I must agree! Cute heroines are all well and good, but what truly makes a girl interesting is when she's...well, interesting! Is she capable? Smart? Creative? There needs to be something about her that stands out, something to make us like and respect this person! (This is doubly true in print, where a girl simply can't get by just by providing eye candy!) What's more, without logic, a story is just random words. We need plausibility. To achieve suspension of disbelief - indeed, IMMERSION, the story has to be believable. As you point out... savage powerful undead killing randomly falling for a mortal he's just met, who has nothing going for her but looks? Not plausible. (Oh, and I'm sure he's seen his share of lookers over the century. And seen them get wrinkles too.)

Additionally, as readers, we want more than to believe the story. The reason we want to believe it is because we want to live it, to BE the protagonist, at least in our imaginations. What attraction is there in fantasizing about being someone's decorative wife? Not the wife part - that makes sense - but wouldn't any healthy person prefer to be an equal? Not just in terms of rights, but in contribution, in effectiveness as well. To look at said powerful handsome immortal and subconsciously think "yes, he's awesome... and that makes him just right for me, because so am I?"

Yes, I'm passionate about this topic. Can you tell? :)

Re: Packs O’ Men

Laura Robinson — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:50:49 -0000

Yasi is competitive for the hottest title. :)